1 00:00:00,017 --> 00:00:02,437 About seeing what you all voted on. 2 00:00:04,757 --> 00:00:11,897 All right. So what we're going to do is we first talk a bit about, 3 00:00:14,997 --> 00:00:18,717 who here has actually proposed a goal this year. 4 00:00:23,317 --> 00:00:29,777 All right. Very good. Very good. Good. Then. 5 00:00:35,377 --> 00:00:36,537 Goal number one. 6 00:00:44,717 --> 00:00:46,557 We're doing drum rolls, but not like that. 7 00:00:50,177 --> 00:00:57,197 All right. Goal Goal number one, streamlined application development experience. 8 00:01:04,437 --> 00:01:09,957 I see that is getting some applause. So you like this one. Very good. 9 00:01:10,237 --> 00:01:14,197 This is how this is supposed to be. Goal number two. 10 00:01:20,757 --> 00:01:24,757 Goal number two is we care about your input. 11 00:01:35,093 --> 00:01:37,193 And the final one. 12 00:01:41,813 --> 00:01:45,113 The third one is KDE Needs You. 13 00:01:45,793 --> 00:01:49,433 Formalize and boost KDE's processes for recruiting active contributors. 14 00:01:56,153 --> 00:02:00,713 Thank you everyone who has proposed the goal. and what we will be doing now 15 00:02:00,713 --> 00:02:05,253 is getting the people on stage who proposed these, 16 00:02:07,933 --> 00:02:11,093 who is here come on people. 17 00:02:20,753 --> 00:02:28,533 Hello hi do we have anyone yes very good All right. 18 00:02:28,733 --> 00:02:35,233 What we're going to do now is have all of you talk a bit about your goal. What is it all about? 19 00:02:36,793 --> 00:02:38,753 It's all about the apps, in a way. 20 00:02:40,793 --> 00:02:46,293 So, jokes aside, it really is a continuation of some of the goals we had in the past. 21 00:02:46,453 --> 00:02:49,553 First and foremost, the all about the apps goal, which was great. 22 00:02:49,793 --> 00:02:56,193 But it focused a lot on everything around applications, how we advertise them, 23 00:02:56,353 --> 00:03:00,473 how we build them, how we deploy them, but not so much about how we write them. 24 00:03:00,673 --> 00:03:05,053 So that's why I want to come in. But it's also an extension of, 25 00:03:05,233 --> 00:03:10,453 for example, the consistency goal, the usability goal, the accessibility goal, 26 00:03:10,593 --> 00:03:13,473 the automation goal, the sustainability goal. 27 00:03:13,673 --> 00:03:20,733 I want to take input from all of these goals and also everything else and make 28 00:03:20,733 --> 00:03:25,273 sure that we have all of the technical and non-technical things in place that 29 00:03:25,273 --> 00:03:27,633 people can write and enjoy great applications. 30 00:03:37,432 --> 00:03:42,912 Okay, so I've been involved with the input goal. We care about our input is 31 00:03:42,912 --> 00:03:46,972 not meant to be about user feedback in this case. It's a slight... 32 00:03:48,352 --> 00:03:52,432 I mean, we care about that too, but this is about the input stack. 33 00:03:53,292 --> 00:03:57,292 So any kind of input devices you might be using, your mouse, 34 00:03:57,492 --> 00:04:05,292 your keyboard, your game controllers, your accessibility needs all of these things, 35 00:04:06,832 --> 00:04:14,872 KDE has many good foundations to build on and there are small things missing 36 00:04:14,872 --> 00:04:21,012 in many of these areas some of them are sort of easy fixes we just have to figure 37 00:04:21,012 --> 00:04:23,532 them out others are medium-sized projects, 38 00:04:24,832 --> 00:04:32,052 and this goal is about trying to figure out how we can get from something for 39 00:04:32,052 --> 00:04:34,592 everyone to something really good for everyone. 40 00:04:36,312 --> 00:04:43,492 So you can stick with any one input device or you can use all of them in combination 41 00:04:43,492 --> 00:04:50,072 with most productivity, good accessibility, all these things. Also, where is Joshua? 42 00:04:50,392 --> 00:04:55,812 He just has his talk, but he's missing here. He should also be on stage. 43 00:04:57,152 --> 00:05:00,752 Stage um yeah i don't know what what else to say right now i'm not prepared 44 00:05:00,752 --> 00:05:02,912 so i'm gonna hand it over okay thanks. 45 00:05:09,194 --> 00:05:11,834 As you can see, I was prepared to come out on stage, you know, 46 00:05:11,834 --> 00:05:14,274 dressing like a nine-year-old going to camp. 47 00:05:16,174 --> 00:05:22,814 Yeah, ours is more like soft skill-like thing because we're not so technical. 48 00:05:23,714 --> 00:05:30,994 We think that there is a fundamental problem that would probably interfere with 49 00:05:30,994 --> 00:05:35,754 the continuity of KD if it becomes a really, 50 00:05:35,814 --> 00:05:41,794 really problematic problem, which is that as you know a lot of the original 51 00:05:41,794 --> 00:05:45,234 open source developers are getting older. 52 00:05:47,174 --> 00:05:54,414 Right and we need renewed blood we do have new people coming in all the time 53 00:05:54,414 --> 00:05:58,114 and it's normally coming in through things like the mentoring programs and stuff 54 00:05:58,114 --> 00:06:02,694 like that but there's the people who do the mentorship know uh the number of 55 00:06:02,694 --> 00:06:05,534 people who stay on is normally very very, very small, 56 00:06:05,674 --> 00:06:08,374 talking about maybe less than 10%. 57 00:06:09,274 --> 00:06:12,434 So we want to reinforce that. We want to reinforce that. 58 00:06:12,474 --> 00:06:17,574 We want the mentorship, the people who are just doing Google Summer of Code 59 00:06:17,574 --> 00:06:25,034 and Season of KDE is going to become the mentorship team, 60 00:06:25,574 --> 00:06:28,114 I guess, and will include recruitments. 61 00:06:28,554 --> 00:06:32,674 So we're going to take on more mentorship programs. We have talked with the 62 00:06:32,674 --> 00:06:35,434 people who do mentoring, with Johnny and other people. 63 00:06:36,054 --> 00:06:40,274 And we already started with a Chinese mentorship program. 64 00:06:41,531 --> 00:06:44,911 And we're going to expand that, and we're going to include recruitment, 65 00:06:45,731 --> 00:06:51,051 and we're going to include talking to academic institutions like schools and 66 00:06:51,051 --> 00:06:54,311 technical schools and universities, et cetera, so that we can get more people 67 00:06:54,311 --> 00:06:59,511 interested in KD and doing stuff in KD during their courses. 68 00:07:00,091 --> 00:07:03,591 So we're not going to be looking only at recruiting individuals, 69 00:07:03,651 --> 00:07:11,051 but we're going to be recruiting institutions that will supply us with people to work on KD projects. 70 00:07:11,051 --> 00:07:16,591 Because as we know, we have plenty of KDE projects that are awesome and big and complicated. 71 00:07:16,831 --> 00:07:20,971 And there's only maybe two people working on them. And that is a problem. 72 00:07:21,571 --> 00:07:27,511 Okay. And I mean, the people at KDE Live back there are shaking their heads 73 00:07:27,511 --> 00:07:29,491 and saying, yes, that's us. 74 00:07:29,991 --> 00:07:34,731 I mean, but we could look at the people who are developing Plasma or Krita or 75 00:07:34,731 --> 00:07:40,511 whatever. However, many of our applications are great, but they're really small, 76 00:07:40,651 --> 00:07:42,511 and there's maybe one or two people working on it. 77 00:07:43,231 --> 00:07:48,531 Well, I mean, in the case of Tokodon and NeoChat, there's not one or two people. 78 00:07:48,591 --> 00:07:52,671 It's like one person divided into 50 different projects, right? 79 00:07:53,131 --> 00:08:01,251 So this is a problem that could become, and I don't use this word lightly, 80 00:08:01,431 --> 00:08:07,971 an existential threat if we do not increase the number of people contributing 81 00:08:07,971 --> 00:08:11,511 to the code base and stuff like that. 82 00:08:11,591 --> 00:08:15,591 So this project is doing everything we have to do. 83 00:08:16,271 --> 00:08:22,231 It's very ambitious to change that, to have a constant stream of people coming in. 84 00:08:23,071 --> 00:08:28,951 Hoping some of them, a certain percentage, will stay, and then we can ensure 85 00:08:28,951 --> 00:08:34,771 the continuity of the KDE project and all its applications and the desktop, etc. Yeah. 86 00:08:44,071 --> 00:08:48,251 All right. Then there will be more questions. 87 00:08:50,011 --> 00:08:55,931 So one thing you might have noticed is that this year there were more names 88 00:08:55,931 --> 00:09:03,651 than just one for each of the goals because we said we would like to have a team behind the goals. 89 00:09:06,111 --> 00:09:11,211 For the first goal, we don't have a team yet. But are you looking for someone? 90 00:09:11,431 --> 00:09:14,831 And if so, are you looking for someone specific to help you? 91 00:09:15,291 --> 00:09:16,731 I'm looking for everybody. 92 00:09:19,211 --> 00:09:23,111 No, I'm the solo champion that is named on the goal. 93 00:09:23,231 --> 00:09:27,291 But there were a lot of people in the fabricator task indicating that they are 94 00:09:27,291 --> 00:09:30,971 willing to help so I'm looking forward to all of them helping out with that. 95 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,180 And for your goal who else was on the on 96 00:09:37,180 --> 00:09:40,000 the ticket yeah i mean our goal was a 97 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:46,720 team effort from the start sort of uh gernot who's not here at academy uh proposed 98 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:53,700 this it was it was his initiative um he talks to a lot of people on in chat 99 00:09:53,700 --> 00:09:58,380 rooms uh support in general um He came up with this. 100 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:05,220 I helped to spread it out a little bit, expand the scope. 101 00:10:05,620 --> 00:10:13,540 And we also have Joshua Goins on it, who really provides the technical deep 102 00:10:13,540 --> 00:10:15,960 knowledge that we also need to guide this forward. 103 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:25,940 So hopefully we have some of every expertise on it, but there are a lot of components to it. 104 00:10:26,020 --> 00:10:28,660 So we definitely hope this is going to be an inclusive goal. 105 00:10:28,820 --> 00:10:35,900 We made it deliberately a little larger than just the three of us could necessarily do it. 106 00:10:35,940 --> 00:10:40,820 We're going to rely a lot on the community. There are some people who have projects 107 00:10:40,820 --> 00:10:47,840 going on that already go into this direction or who have started something that 108 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,420 needs more work, that needs other people, 109 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:52,640 and they've been distracted by other important projects. 110 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:59,820 So we really want to get everyone into this boat, helping out. 111 00:10:59,820 --> 00:11:04,620 Hopefully we can do a little bit of publicity effort because that's what being 112 00:11:04,620 --> 00:11:11,820 a champion is all about as far as I understand so we'll try to help people find 113 00:11:11,820 --> 00:11:18,740 the right kind of work that is good for them and also support them where we can let's see how it goes, 114 00:11:20,772 --> 00:11:25,192 And how about you two? We do have kind of... Is it working? Yeah. 115 00:11:25,272 --> 00:11:26,692 We do have a kind of a team. 116 00:11:28,992 --> 00:11:32,372 Well... I'll pause. Her? 117 00:11:34,512 --> 00:11:38,792 No, and there are several people who have also pledged to help us out. 118 00:11:41,172 --> 00:11:46,992 This project is kind of integral of Promo, because Promo, you must remember, 119 00:11:47,092 --> 00:11:47,972 is pro and communication. 120 00:11:47,972 --> 00:11:54,492 So we have to communicate with all these institutions which we have already 121 00:11:54,492 --> 00:11:59,932 started doing going to some events where there have been academic institutions 122 00:11:59,932 --> 00:12:05,492 and companies etc they've come to us with tears in their eyes well no, 123 00:12:05,572 --> 00:12:07,952 but they've come to us and said, 124 00:12:10,112 --> 00:12:16,392 what can we do or what can I do for my students or how can our company help 125 00:12:16,392 --> 00:12:21,652 And the answer is always kind of like, well, get them into mentoring and stuff like that. 126 00:12:21,792 --> 00:12:27,052 So it's part already of Promo's kind of job to do this. 127 00:12:28,112 --> 00:12:34,572 We also have as allies the people who are working on the mentoring. 128 00:12:34,612 --> 00:12:38,732 They did not have a website and we pushed them to have a website. 129 00:12:38,852 --> 00:12:39,892 And now they have a website. 130 00:12:40,172 --> 00:12:44,712 And it's not Google Summer of Code and Season of Katie anymore. 131 00:12:44,712 --> 00:12:50,852 What it's mentorship so and there we can include all that so as I said again 132 00:12:50,852 --> 00:12:53,832 Johnny and what's the other guy. 133 00:12:56,115 --> 00:13:03,435 In the mentorship with us, Johnny okay, Johnny and the other guy I can't remember, 134 00:13:05,335 --> 00:13:08,675 yeah so they are 135 00:13:08,675 --> 00:13:16,075 going to participate actively in this project too because basically that is 136 00:13:16,075 --> 00:13:24,575 what they are going to end up doing our project has a clear goal which is the 137 00:13:24,575 --> 00:13:27,815 mentorship program become a mentorship recruitment program, 138 00:13:28,455 --> 00:13:35,175 by the end of the two years and will just be another part of KD like any other 139 00:13:35,175 --> 00:13:38,235 project, right? So that is our objective. 140 00:13:39,815 --> 00:13:45,395 Yes? Not too related, but just be careful of this guy. He's going to drag you. 141 00:13:45,835 --> 00:13:48,675 And even if you're not interested, he will just approach you and say that, 142 00:13:48,695 --> 00:13:50,355 I don't care, you just have to work on it. 143 00:13:50,455 --> 00:13:56,775 That's what he did with me and Nate. it so yeah be prepared well yeah fix everybody 144 00:13:56,775 --> 00:14:00,835 i mean come on so that you know there's my team. 145 00:14:02,895 --> 00:14:07,735 That's the spirit which actually brings me to my next question for all of you 146 00:14:07,735 --> 00:14:12,555 is on the one hand the goals are here to unite the kitty community around some 147 00:14:12,555 --> 00:14:17,795 common causes and on the other hand it's a great way for getting people who 148 00:14:17,795 --> 00:14:21,935 are kind of on the fringes and maybe thinking about helping out in KDE to give them some direction. 149 00:14:23,655 --> 00:14:28,595 So do any of you already have some ideas what someone from the outside on the 150 00:14:28,595 --> 00:14:33,115 fringes or someone from inside KDE could do to help move your goals forward? 151 00:14:36,155 --> 00:14:45,015 So part of my goal is also making it easier and encouraging third-party applications to be KDE aligned, 152 00:14:45,335 --> 00:14:50,775 making it easy for them to use KDE libraries or otherwise make applications 153 00:14:50,775 --> 00:14:57,295 that work nicely together with Plasma but aren't necessarily a part of KDE and 154 00:14:57,295 --> 00:15:03,015 also by that encouraging outside contributions to, for example, KDE frameworks. 155 00:15:03,515 --> 00:15:09,915 So I think that's a great angle for bringing new people into KDE and generally 156 00:15:09,915 --> 00:15:12,775 also showing the world that we 157 00:15:12,775 --> 00:15:17,075 have nice software which naturally also attracts new people all the time. 158 00:15:19,494 --> 00:15:27,034 Yeah. So for the input goal, the goal description, 159 00:15:27,334 --> 00:15:36,074 the proposal was split into different parts, generally mapping to the various input devices. 160 00:15:37,014 --> 00:15:42,674 And each of those has things that we can do about it. I think there are some 161 00:15:42,674 --> 00:15:49,094 areas that might require deeper involvement or learning. 162 00:15:49,994 --> 00:15:56,754 Anyone can take it on, but getting involved with Quinn on the input side directly. 163 00:15:57,054 --> 00:16:01,434 There are other things that can be done on the settings front. 164 00:16:01,434 --> 00:16:04,474 System settings can use a lot of work 165 00:16:04,474 --> 00:16:11,234 for drawing tablets, for improving configuration for mouse and touchpad. 166 00:16:12,634 --> 00:16:16,714 The keyboard KCM has recently been rewritten, so that's in pretty good shape, 167 00:16:16,794 --> 00:16:23,074 but there are things that need to be done in order to make all the features or the. 168 00:16:25,494 --> 00:16:33,954 Ways to input your commands to make that configurable so that can be done by 169 00:16:33,954 --> 00:16:35,814 other people that jump in, 170 00:16:36,494 --> 00:16:40,494 anyone can jump in so it really depends i think we'll have to look at the various 171 00:16:40,494 --> 00:16:48,074 tasks um it's going to be our responsibility to make a good list of these tasks 172 00:16:48,074 --> 00:16:52,954 to promote what can be done um and then find the right people for it. 173 00:16:55,734 --> 00:16:58,994 I think in many ways what what 174 00:16:58,994 --> 00:17:02,574 we are trying to do affects both of these projects 175 00:17:02,574 --> 00:17:05,414 as it affects most other projects i mean you're trying 176 00:17:05,414 --> 00:17:08,674 to improve the the experience of developing for 177 00:17:08,674 --> 00:17:11,974 applications in general this is 178 00:17:11,974 --> 00:17:15,234 something that we have heard quite a lot you know because i don't 179 00:17:15,234 --> 00:17:18,154 know how to start we we hear this a lot 180 00:17:18,154 --> 00:17:21,934 so by uh working with 181 00:17:21,934 --> 00:17:25,174 the other goals and with uh the 182 00:17:25,174 --> 00:17:29,054 organizations organizations from outside for example 183 00:17:29,054 --> 00:17:32,054 with technical schools and things like that we can 184 00:17:32,054 --> 00:17:47,894 probably get not only get new contributors to contribute code which is basically 185 00:17:47,894 --> 00:17:50,734 what we are thinking of right now. 186 00:17:50,934 --> 00:17:54,434 We're not thinking of necessarily of users, we're thinking of people who actually 187 00:17:54,434 --> 00:17:58,294 contribute actively to the community. 188 00:17:58,754 --> 00:18:01,074 We can get people into to these projects. 189 00:18:02,471 --> 00:18:10,311 And if, no, if no, when you achieve your goals, sorry, when you achieve your 190 00:18:10,311 --> 00:18:15,931 goals, this will make it easier both for us and for you, you know. 191 00:18:15,991 --> 00:18:24,431 So, yeah, we have been talking to, we have been to several events recently where 192 00:18:24,431 --> 00:18:30,331 we have been talking to especially lots of schools and things like that, right? 193 00:18:30,331 --> 00:18:37,531 And they are thinking, oh, how are things like end-of-year projects? 194 00:18:39,931 --> 00:18:43,371 And so an end-of-year project could be a KDE project. 195 00:18:43,451 --> 00:18:48,171 It could be like a Google Summer of Code project, but organized within KDE. 196 00:18:48,271 --> 00:18:55,291 The problem is that our calendars don't normally coincide with end-of-year, right? 197 00:18:55,351 --> 00:18:59,031 So we would have to think of how to do that. you 198 00:18:59,031 --> 00:19:01,951 know change our calendars and so on but yes we have 199 00:19:01,951 --> 00:19:05,531 talked to several institutions we have them we have them we 200 00:19:05,531 --> 00:19:08,351 have their contacts we talk to them often etc and 201 00:19:08,351 --> 00:19:11,991 we're trying to figure out how we can get academic institutions 202 00:19:11,991 --> 00:19:14,951 into that we're also going to talk to people who 203 00:19:14,951 --> 00:19:17,931 are outside this room in the 204 00:19:17,931 --> 00:19:20,931 hall right to get them to because we 205 00:19:20,931 --> 00:19:24,911 have also have several um companies 206 00:19:24,911 --> 00:19:27,911 say how can we contribute more well so if 207 00:19:27,911 --> 00:19:31,971 you have uh uh people doing stuff that 208 00:19:31,971 --> 00:19:34,851 uh you know you give them 20 of the time to work on 209 00:19:34,851 --> 00:19:40,151 stuff like uh they want well try and convince them to work on kd stuff you know 210 00:19:40,151 --> 00:19:46,951 because it's relevant to your business or new recruits that need to brush up 211 00:19:46,951 --> 00:19:54,471 on their c++ and qt and stuff like that well so we have talked to people uh so we are working on it. 212 00:19:57,951 --> 00:20:02,931 That's great um thank you so much for being good sports and uh taking the plunge 213 00:20:02,931 --> 00:20:08,331 in the deep and love the ball with me um and now we have some time for questions 214 00:20:08,331 --> 00:20:13,951 from the audience do we have any yes. 215 00:20:19,012 --> 00:20:22,532 This question is directed to 216 00:20:22,532 --> 00:20:26,932 katie needs you um so one 217 00:20:26,932 --> 00:20:30,712 of the problems of like uh recruiting 218 00:20:30,712 --> 00:20:34,172 contributors is that my uh 219 00:20:34,172 --> 00:20:37,652 if you are doing a mentoring session 220 00:20:37,652 --> 00:20:40,692 they might only 221 00:20:40,692 --> 00:20:44,532 see the projects as 222 00:20:44,532 --> 00:20:47,392 like a side project 223 00:20:47,392 --> 00:20:50,672 and not really committed to it and 224 00:20:50,672 --> 00:21:01,592 after the session ends they might like uh like give it up or just uh like use 225 00:21:01,592 --> 00:21:07,472 it for you know to get a job which does as proprietary software, 226 00:21:07,912 --> 00:21:17,632 and after that, they might just stop doing free software, which I think, well, is unfortunate. 227 00:21:19,552 --> 00:21:25,692 What can you do to reduce the possibility of this happening? 228 00:21:27,972 --> 00:21:33,172 Yeah, you know what? That's fine. People come in and do stuff and maybe use 229 00:21:33,172 --> 00:21:36,552 it to get a job and then move on, that's going to happen always. 230 00:21:37,032 --> 00:21:40,992 The thing is, I don't think we can actually reduce the amount of people, 231 00:21:41,092 --> 00:21:43,532 the percentage of people who do that, the proportion. 232 00:21:44,332 --> 00:21:50,732 I mean, let's say that of every 10 people, only one sticks around for longer 233 00:21:50,732 --> 00:21:53,092 than a year or something like that, okay? 234 00:21:53,692 --> 00:21:56,892 But the solution is not to focus on that one. 235 00:21:57,052 --> 00:22:01,472 The solution to that is instead of going to 10, it's to go to 100, 236 00:22:01,472 --> 00:22:07,872 and then you end up with 10 people sticking around and now you have a team, right? 237 00:22:07,992 --> 00:22:13,832 So the purpose of this is not to solve that problem because you can't of the 238 00:22:13,832 --> 00:22:18,892 number of people who just leave, just do the Google Summer of Code and then 239 00:22:18,892 --> 00:22:22,272 fuck off, you know? You can't do that. 240 00:22:23,092 --> 00:22:26,412 But what you can do is get more people. 241 00:22:27,252 --> 00:22:32,832 If you have an actual mentorship and recruitment team, you can get many more 242 00:22:32,832 --> 00:22:37,032 people in and then you will end up at the end of the year with many more people sticking around. 243 00:22:37,872 --> 00:22:42,612 So it's a question of not proportions but absolute numbers, right? 244 00:22:43,652 --> 00:22:46,192 Does that answer your question? Okay. 245 00:22:49,328 --> 00:22:58,428 I have a question about the KDE NSU, about involving students to make some world 246 00:22:58,428 --> 00:22:59,968 code contributions and so on. 247 00:23:00,068 --> 00:23:03,168 So we have a lot of institutes that teach programming in C++, 248 00:23:03,448 --> 00:23:11,588 JavaScript, Python, Devolves, and every day they do some tasks to learn. 249 00:23:11,828 --> 00:23:17,048 And the teacher can, Instead of giving some virtual tasks, they can choose tasks 250 00:23:17,048 --> 00:23:20,708 from KDE software and give them to students to do. 251 00:23:20,848 --> 00:23:26,208 For example, five students will do the task, and the best student will be chosen 252 00:23:26,208 --> 00:23:28,208 to commit these changes. 253 00:23:28,608 --> 00:23:34,788 And this will be a lot of students that will be involved into open-source software 254 00:23:34,788 --> 00:23:38,368 from their childhood, from their studying. 255 00:23:38,368 --> 00:23:41,048 And then it's really 256 00:23:41,048 --> 00:23:43,828 a lot of free resources and it's interesting and they 257 00:23:43,828 --> 00:23:46,728 will be motivated to continue this so do you 258 00:23:46,728 --> 00:23:50,128 have some ideas about how 259 00:23:50,128 --> 00:23:53,568 to involve teachers from institutes into this process yes 260 00:23:53,568 --> 00:23:57,448 mostly we've have in the events we have been to we have been to i don't know 261 00:23:57,448 --> 00:24:02,868 uh i have personally been to like three this year where we have talked to the 262 00:24:02,868 --> 00:24:09,268 teachers and the teachers Teachers have actually asked about how they can get 263 00:24:09,268 --> 00:24:11,788 their students to contribute into free software. 264 00:24:12,388 --> 00:24:18,448 And they're thinking along the lines of getting students involved in free software 265 00:24:18,448 --> 00:24:22,088 so they can do stuff academically. 266 00:24:22,608 --> 00:24:26,908 So they want to help teach, 267 00:24:26,968 --> 00:24:29,728 but they also want us to be able to 268 00:24:29,728 --> 00:24:32,948 provide uh stuff like end of 269 00:24:32,948 --> 00:24:38,528 year projects or uh stuff like what you're saying right get them programming 270 00:24:38,528 --> 00:24:43,928 for uh kd so that they can test their programming skills and things like that 271 00:24:43,928 --> 00:24:51,148 yeah it's it's it's basically what they're thinking of so i i hope this happens 272 00:24:51,148 --> 00:24:52,108 because there are several, 273 00:24:52,228 --> 00:25:00,588 every academic setup in each country of Europe, which is what I have been looking 274 00:25:00,588 --> 00:25:02,328 into at the moment, is different. 275 00:25:03,528 --> 00:25:07,488 So we're going to have to do stuff so that it works legally in Spain, 276 00:25:07,588 --> 00:25:10,768 and then we're going to have to do other stuff so it works legally in France, 277 00:25:10,968 --> 00:25:14,248 and we're going to have to do stuff so it works legally in Germany, 278 00:25:14,288 --> 00:25:16,688 all different stuff, right? Right. 279 00:25:16,708 --> 00:25:20,628 But yeah, that is more or less what you said is more or less the idea. 280 00:25:20,948 --> 00:25:26,528 Right. So KD become part of their academic work. 281 00:25:27,548 --> 00:25:34,828 Right. Hopefully some of those will also get inspired and will also become regular contributors. 282 00:25:35,268 --> 00:25:40,808 Right. Because it is also true that many of the people that come into KD come in as students. 283 00:25:41,548 --> 00:25:47,268 So, you know, hopefully that will also contribute to that. Okay. 284 00:25:50,175 --> 00:25:54,275 A very broad question for the streamlined application development experience. 285 00:25:54,635 --> 00:26:03,615 Just listening to the KDE Needs You, I was wondering how you think that goal and your goal align. 286 00:26:05,275 --> 00:26:11,555 It aligns in the sense that a huge part of my goal is outreach to potential 287 00:26:11,555 --> 00:26:12,795 application developers, 288 00:26:12,795 --> 00:26:18,835 both people who have never written applications themselves or have written applications 289 00:26:18,835 --> 00:26:21,535 but aren't KDE aligned or part of KDE. 290 00:26:21,695 --> 00:26:24,755 So that definitely is a huge overlap. 291 00:26:25,015 --> 00:26:30,035 Also, in terms of outreach specifically to, for example, schools and universities, 292 00:26:30,815 --> 00:26:37,655 encouraging people to get into real application or software project development 293 00:26:37,655 --> 00:26:44,335 with concrete KDE projects instead of academic toy projects, maybe. 294 00:26:45,555 --> 00:26:52,115 And just showing people that open source is a very nice path to get real world 295 00:26:52,115 --> 00:26:57,235 experience, build skills, build employability, so to say. 296 00:26:58,895 --> 00:27:03,355 So yeah, outreach is a very, very important part of my goal. 297 00:27:15,775 --> 00:27:23,595 I was intrigued by the diagram Nate showed, this mountain skype of KDE developer 298 00:27:23,595 --> 00:27:26,895 generations where you could see their peaks and their valleys. 299 00:27:31,815 --> 00:27:36,695 So my question and that I think is to the KDE Neets You, but maybe also to the 300 00:27:36,695 --> 00:27:41,635 development goal, what do you think we can learn from these numbers and how 301 00:27:41,635 --> 00:27:43,775 could we use these numbers to track progress? 302 00:27:46,745 --> 00:27:53,505 Well, in that graphic, there's a clear peak at the beginning of KD5. 303 00:27:53,905 --> 00:28:00,285 That great peak is at the beginning of KD5. Then there's a smaller peak at the beginning of KD6. 304 00:28:02,425 --> 00:28:07,705 Obviously, people like new shiny stuff. That's one thing we can learn and like 305 00:28:07,705 --> 00:28:10,305 contributing to new shiny stuff. 306 00:28:11,225 --> 00:28:14,205 Stuff the thing is that kd has 307 00:28:14,205 --> 00:28:17,145 much more new shiny stuff than 308 00:28:17,145 --> 00:28:20,065 only plasma if we can get that message out 309 00:28:20,065 --> 00:28:29,445 there yep and also uh every uh uh so so many years uh uh a kd application comes 310 00:28:29,445 --> 00:28:34,565 along that takes the world by storm like critter came along and now kd live 311 00:28:34,565 --> 00:28:39,445 is coming along and they They are really bringing in a lot of people. 312 00:28:39,705 --> 00:28:46,185 Most people don't know that there are KDE applications because they don't know 313 00:28:46,185 --> 00:28:48,685 that KDE exists even, right? 314 00:28:48,785 --> 00:28:52,585 They just use KDE Live. They just use Krita. They never think about the K at all. 315 00:28:53,965 --> 00:29:02,085 So if we can transmit to the rest of the world that KDE is more than that and 316 00:29:02,085 --> 00:29:05,625 we have more shiny stuff that comes out with a regular, 317 00:29:05,625 --> 00:29:13,385 We can probably help sustain those numbers so that it's not only peaks when new plasmas come out. 318 00:29:13,825 --> 00:29:17,505 And we can have a steady growth, which is what we want. 319 00:29:21,225 --> 00:29:29,165 And people who contribute to KDE projects tend to contribute to several KDE projects. 320 00:29:29,745 --> 00:29:33,225 So hopefully that will filter to other projects, so 321 00:29:33,225 --> 00:29:37,965 people who start maybe developing for tocodon or 322 00:29:37,965 --> 00:29:41,465 or uh camel or whatever 323 00:29:41,465 --> 00:29:48,905 will also end up contributing stuff to plasma so or you know it's one of those 324 00:29:48,905 --> 00:29:54,765 situations where a rising tide raises all boats hopefully that is what we want 325 00:29:54,765 --> 00:29:59,785 to attain right does that answer your question. 326 00:30:05,425 --> 00:30:08,325 Something we that we've seen in the graph and also 327 00:30:08,325 --> 00:30:11,245 from general community experience and it 328 00:30:11,245 --> 00:30:15,485 was already mentioned before is that we are very multi-generational community 329 00:30:15,485 --> 00:30:22,285 so we we have multiple generations of people coming in maintaining things and 330 00:30:22,285 --> 00:30:28,645 then leaving for some reason or another and many projects can be traced down 331 00:30:28,645 --> 00:30:31,345 to really the end of the 90s when it all started, 332 00:30:31,465 --> 00:30:36,465 like KMailCureOrganizer, really one of those applications that live on forever. 333 00:30:36,725 --> 00:30:43,385 But we also have a lot of applications that are much younger and replaced older applications. 334 00:30:43,785 --> 00:30:49,525 For example, we have ELISA, which is, given the overall history of KDE, 335 00:30:49,605 --> 00:30:53,805 a very young application, which, well, not technically, officially, 336 00:30:54,025 --> 00:30:57,845 but in spirit, a bit replaced older applications like Amarok. 337 00:30:59,665 --> 00:31:02,405 So in a way that's a good thing and in 338 00:31:02,405 --> 00:31:05,405 a way that's a bad thing it's a good thing because it shows 339 00:31:05,405 --> 00:31:08,665 that people come in and want to create new applications and 340 00:31:08,665 --> 00:31:11,765 our platform is attractive enough for people to 341 00:31:11,765 --> 00:31:14,445 do that but it's also a bit 342 00:31:14,445 --> 00:31:17,405 of a bad thing because we sometimes have 343 00:31:17,405 --> 00:31:20,585 a pattern of there's an application it it 344 00:31:20,585 --> 00:31:23,625 grows and matures and then sometimes it 345 00:31:23,625 --> 00:31:26,665 starts crusting and squeaking and then somebody 346 00:31:26,665 --> 00:31:30,685 comes along and thinks I want to make a fresh new application and 347 00:31:30,685 --> 00:31:36,965 something I want to also work on is not only encouraging new applications but 348 00:31:36,965 --> 00:31:43,285 also making sure that applications age gracefully and can live on a long time 349 00:31:43,285 --> 00:31:47,325 without becoming obsolete and need replacement at some point. 350 00:31:51,085 --> 00:31:55,765 Very cool. Any more questions from the audience? Peace. 351 00:32:06,605 --> 00:32:10,785 Yeah maybe not so much a question but a comment on your last statement, 352 00:32:12,805 --> 00:32:17,785 and maybe it's a good thing to have new applications that, 353 00:32:20,645 --> 00:32:25,065 reduce the amount of old code if you can. 354 00:32:28,385 --> 00:32:35,405 Make sure that there's a core a stable core that that transfers the knowledge 355 00:32:35,405 --> 00:32:36,625 embedded in the application. 356 00:32:36,925 --> 00:32:46,505 So if I have a core library and my Shiny application is built on that library 357 00:32:46,505 --> 00:32:53,465 and it's doing all the work and it matures, it gets older, 358 00:32:53,725 --> 00:32:57,585 it gets harder to contribute for new contributors, 359 00:32:58,365 --> 00:33:00,725 because naturally that's the way it goes. 360 00:33:00,725 --> 00:33:06,425 And then afterwards you can write a new application that just takes the core 361 00:33:06,425 --> 00:33:11,385 part and then makes a good, nice interface on that. 362 00:33:12,445 --> 00:33:16,865 Yeah, absolutely. I think a very good example of this pattern we are seeing 363 00:33:16,865 --> 00:33:20,765 right now in KDE PIM, we have the traditional applications like KMail, 364 00:33:20,765 --> 00:33:23,225 KOrganizer, KAddressBook, 365 00:33:23,425 --> 00:33:27,365 which are building on all of the foundations like Akonadi and now we have new 366 00:33:27,365 --> 00:33:34,405 applications like Melkuru, Which take all of these building blocks that are 367 00:33:34,405 --> 00:33:38,365 already there and don't need to be reinvented and build a fresh, 368 00:33:38,525 --> 00:33:43,605 modern user interface on it with different goals than the original one, 369 00:33:43,765 --> 00:33:48,065 but still benefiting from the decades of work that went into the old system. 370 00:33:53,305 --> 00:33:57,965 ScanPage versus ScanLight is another example of that. There was a new developer 371 00:33:57,965 --> 00:34:04,405 coming in, taking the old library and even drawing in the previous maintainer 372 00:34:04,405 --> 00:34:05,605 to improve it a little bit. 373 00:34:07,165 --> 00:34:09,045 Yeah, so it's a good strategy. 374 00:34:10,665 --> 00:34:17,285 Thank you so much to all of you. Now it's on all of you to help them make all of this happen. 375 00:34:18,865 --> 00:34:25,745 Because this is not only their work. and some of the things you can do is join 376 00:34:25,745 --> 00:34:30,165 the BoFs on Monday there will be BoFs one for each of the goals, 377 00:34:31,165 --> 00:34:35,845 and you can also join the Goals Matrix channel that is on the slide, 378 00:34:37,425 --> 00:34:41,745 and with that thank you so much thank you, 379 00:34:47,565 --> 00:34:54,205 well that was really great thanks guys for the new goals So now we're five minutes 380 00:34:54,205 --> 00:34:57,165 early or so, but that's okay. So up next, we've got lunch.