1 00:00:04,157 --> 00:00:07,557 There we go. Thank you. We got it. 2 00:00:10,257 --> 00:00:15,217 So, hello. It's my pleasure to be here with you today. 3 00:00:15,837 --> 00:00:24,477 And I have a story for you to tell with a very catchy title, 4 00:00:25,177 --> 00:00:27,317 Only Hackers Will Survive. 5 00:00:27,317 --> 00:00:31,577 And I will tell you a bit why later on. 6 00:00:31,797 --> 00:00:35,477 But before we begin, a little disclaimer. 7 00:00:37,657 --> 00:00:44,917 In terms of accessibility and for visually disabled people who might listen 8 00:00:44,917 --> 00:00:51,137 to us online, I would like to introduce myself as a person, female, almost 30. 9 00:00:52,117 --> 00:00:59,517 And technology-wise, this technology, of course, were prepared only with open source software. 10 00:00:59,797 --> 00:01:06,117 I hope it's clear for the crowd here. But some people might also listen to us later on online. 11 00:01:06,397 --> 00:01:08,337 So I really would like to also point it out. 12 00:01:08,677 --> 00:01:20,857 And in terms of ecology, all the file will prepare in a way to be the most effective as possible. 13 00:01:20,857 --> 00:01:26,857 Possible so those are the three aspects that i will also build my story today 14 00:01:26,857 --> 00:01:29,637 on and the whole talk will last 15 00:01:29,637 --> 00:01:36,617 30 minutes afterward we will have a space for q and a so if any kind of. 16 00:01:37,497 --> 00:01:41,017 Thought will pump up just 17 00:01:41,017 --> 00:01:44,237 raise your hand afterwards and there is 18 00:01:44,237 --> 00:01:47,797 a space for discussion and also there 19 00:01:47,797 --> 00:01:50,997 will be like a short very quick one 20 00:01:50,997 --> 00:02:00,217 announcement but this one a bit off the record and so so yeah welcome my name 21 00:02:00,217 --> 00:02:10,477 is Joanna and I'm not developer I'm more like a researcher and I also advocate for open sources. 22 00:02:10,737 --> 00:02:17,637 I work with educational organizations, with cultural organizations, 23 00:02:17,937 --> 00:02:23,137 help them to transform themselves on this more ethical and sustainable path 24 00:02:23,137 --> 00:02:29,397 and also help them to implement open source solutions in their organizations. 25 00:02:29,657 --> 00:02:37,017 So this is what I'm doing. I'm promoting what you are, doing here. 26 00:02:37,177 --> 00:02:43,817 So when I'm talking about accessibility for me it's a kind of a. 27 00:02:47,328 --> 00:02:50,808 Respect and also openness for diverse 28 00:02:50,808 --> 00:02:54,188 and resilient communities and as a 29 00:02:54,188 --> 00:02:57,528 whole if we look as a communities as a social as a 30 00:02:57,528 --> 00:03:01,148 us as a society as a whole system and 31 00:03:01,148 --> 00:03:04,688 technology and ecology as well we all have to live 32 00:03:04,688 --> 00:03:08,028 in a one big closed ecosystem which 33 00:03:08,028 --> 00:03:16,148 is our planet earth and there are some issues emerge from that because on this 34 00:03:16,148 --> 00:03:21,748 intersection of those relation between those systems sometimes some of them 35 00:03:21,748 --> 00:03:26,288 are more extractive sometimes there is like a lack of, 36 00:03:27,788 --> 00:03:36,028 harmony between because at the bottom of that we have a limited access to the to the resources. 37 00:03:38,268 --> 00:03:43,988 Mostly water, because this is the resource that allows us all to live, all to survive. 38 00:03:44,408 --> 00:03:48,628 And especially in the context of environmental aspect of technology, 39 00:03:49,328 --> 00:03:58,188 it's been talking a lot about carbon footprint, energy, energy consumption, 40 00:03:58,628 --> 00:04:04,448 but also I really would like to pay your attention to the footprint of water itself. 41 00:04:04,448 --> 00:04:12,608 Because when it comes to, I will tell you the story from the perspective of a smartphone. 42 00:04:14,148 --> 00:04:19,928 Year 2007, all of us know these dates, like first iPhone comes out and it totally 43 00:04:19,928 --> 00:04:27,168 changed the way how we, changed how we, what was our relationship with the technology, 44 00:04:27,348 --> 00:04:28,208 how we reach information, 45 00:04:28,448 --> 00:04:34,108 how we produce data, how the data comes to us and how it forms our way of thinking 46 00:04:34,108 --> 00:04:37,528 and perceiving the reality. 47 00:04:38,108 --> 00:04:41,688 What is also important in terms of the water, I don't know if you were aware, 48 00:04:41,928 --> 00:04:45,628 but to produce one single piece of a smartphone, 49 00:04:45,928 --> 00:04:54,448 it is, in the whole life cycle of it, it generates water footprint in amount 50 00:04:54,448 --> 00:04:56,448 of like 14 square meters. 51 00:04:56,448 --> 00:05:03,328 So I will do a small experience for you right now and I will make 13 steps just 52 00:05:03,328 --> 00:05:06,408 to realize you how much water is that one two three. 53 00:05:08,042 --> 00:05:11,242 I think I will not even make it to able to 54 00:05:11,242 --> 00:05:16,622 cross it just to it's why I'm doing it just to drive your imagination and just 55 00:05:16,622 --> 00:05:22,482 to realizing you that everything that you want and this technological progress 56 00:05:22,482 --> 00:05:30,142 also harming harming this those ecological and environmental systems so, 57 00:05:31,342 --> 00:05:34,662 when we're talking about all everyone is it 58 00:05:34,662 --> 00:05:37,642 working does work yeah thanks thanks excellent and 59 00:05:37,642 --> 00:05:41,122 so when we are talking about everyone 60 00:05:41,122 --> 00:05:44,842 today so on the smartphone it's like it's clear but i 61 00:05:44,842 --> 00:05:48,202 really would like to pay your attention to like small things 62 00:05:48,202 --> 00:05:51,082 that building our relationship with this 63 00:05:51,082 --> 00:05:57,682 with this piece of hardware and i will pay your attention to notifications notifications 64 00:05:57,682 --> 00:06:04,262 and especially the use of a red color red color in terms of like a psychology 65 00:06:04,262 --> 00:06:09,682 it's kind of a like a signal for our brain that something wrong is happening, 66 00:06:09,942 --> 00:06:13,862 that we immediately have to pay attention to it. 67 00:06:14,022 --> 00:06:18,702 It also, at some point, if we are overexposed to the red color, 68 00:06:18,962 --> 00:06:24,742 it can also affect our blood pulse, 69 00:06:25,282 --> 00:06:29,342 and it can make us, even at some point, anxious. 70 00:06:30,102 --> 00:06:34,182 Those are the hidden aspects of the psychology of colors. 71 00:06:34,182 --> 00:06:37,182 Colors and this is this the the 72 00:06:37,182 --> 00:06:43,142 the front side but when it comes to the very early stage of like making this 73 00:06:43,142 --> 00:06:47,282 decision that in a way of like how we design our interfaces how we create a 74 00:06:47,282 --> 00:06:54,402 technology that create us and shapes our behaviors and i want to also pay your attention to the, 75 00:06:55,022 --> 00:06:59,022 raw earth mineral it's called europium i 76 00:06:59,022 --> 00:07:06,502 don't know if you heard about it this is It's a really interesting aspect because 77 00:07:06,502 --> 00:07:14,502 this only one particular rare earth mineral is responsible for illuminating 78 00:07:14,502 --> 00:07:16,762 bright colors on our screen. 79 00:07:16,762 --> 00:07:29,722 And currently it's really hard to recycle those metals so it is like 1% of efficiency 80 00:07:29,722 --> 00:07:34,862 when it comes to recycling and repurposing this metal. 81 00:07:35,402 --> 00:07:42,082 So as you can see, small decisions, small aspects like choosing the color, 82 00:07:42,142 --> 00:07:46,962 choosing the right color which is affecting us personally on the level of psychology. 83 00:07:48,122 --> 00:07:50,822 Also contributes to the aspect of... 84 00:07:51,910 --> 00:07:58,350 Of the way how the natural resources are being extracted. 85 00:07:59,090 --> 00:08:03,590 And also because the technological development, 86 00:08:03,830 --> 00:08:07,830 which I'm a huge fan of, so I'm not standing against it, I'm just trying to 87 00:08:07,830 --> 00:08:13,710 give you a broader context of that, is that we are not, 88 00:08:13,930 --> 00:08:18,430 because our economy is of course linear and it's a huge problem, 89 00:08:18,430 --> 00:08:25,310 them driven by consumerism and so we are not looking for a solution. 90 00:08:25,450 --> 00:08:31,650 There is lack of, unfortunately, on a massive scale, of solutions, 91 00:08:31,990 --> 00:08:37,990 how to repurpose, how to reuse it, how to rethink even the way we are creating our world today. 92 00:08:38,310 --> 00:08:45,410 So we are constantly looking and constantly extracting metals and minerals, 93 00:08:45,510 --> 00:08:48,690 even though from the very bottom 94 00:08:48,690 --> 00:08:53,050 of the of our oceans so so 95 00:08:53,050 --> 00:08:56,790 that's also the kind of like a alarm for 96 00:08:56,790 --> 00:08:59,930 our society that maybe it's a way to better to 97 00:08:59,930 --> 00:09:04,770 rethink how we create stuff and what is our relationship with them rather than 98 00:09:04,770 --> 00:09:14,030 keep continue and keep maintaining same same system and so this is the those 99 00:09:14,030 --> 00:09:19,170 are the consequences of this linear approach that we are just sourcing. 100 00:09:19,230 --> 00:09:24,370 We don't think about putting our sources back in circulation. 101 00:09:26,030 --> 00:09:31,290 Then everything is driven by sale and trends. But most importantly, 102 00:09:31,330 --> 00:09:39,230 when it comes to the technology, what is the end of the life cycle of our hardware? 103 00:09:39,350 --> 00:09:43,010 What is the end of the life cycle of our devices? 104 00:09:43,490 --> 00:09:48,990 So and I will pay a bit more attention here because I will share with you a 105 00:09:48,990 --> 00:09:58,270 few footages and outcomes from my recent research I done in India in electronic waste dumpsters, 106 00:09:58,930 --> 00:10:06,750 mostly thankfully to the support for KDE community from India and what I found 107 00:10:06,750 --> 00:10:09,110 there was really like it broke me totally, 108 00:10:09,410 --> 00:10:13,370 but also gave me a lot of hope because I realized there are people like you 109 00:10:13,370 --> 00:10:16,430 who are trying to find a solution for those problems. 110 00:10:16,770 --> 00:10:21,830 And I think we all need to, at some point, be aware of that. 111 00:10:22,090 --> 00:10:25,710 And those pictures are not easy, so sorry for them. Yeah. 112 00:10:27,434 --> 00:10:31,594 But everyone deserves to know the truth, right? 113 00:10:32,014 --> 00:10:37,174 So basically, the end of the life cycle of our smartphones, like there is a 114 00:10:37,174 --> 00:10:41,414 very interesting research hub close to the UN. 115 00:10:42,414 --> 00:10:48,894 Every year, they launch a new report about electronic waste and this problem 116 00:10:48,894 --> 00:10:50,434 only skyrocketing, right? 117 00:10:50,554 --> 00:10:53,654 So it's not that we are having enough 118 00:10:53,654 --> 00:10:56,694 solution to overcome common to trying 119 00:10:56,694 --> 00:11:00,094 to solve this issue and what is really personally bothering 120 00:11:00,094 --> 00:11:05,094 me the most that we as a society already have a huge problem with a plastic 121 00:11:05,094 --> 00:11:09,454 and we don't know how to solve it like the little plastic particles can be found 122 00:11:09,454 --> 00:11:15,354 almost everywhere you know even the one of a pregnant woman and now we have 123 00:11:15,354 --> 00:11:19,454 like another stream of electronic waste which is coming and which is 124 00:11:19,474 --> 00:11:23,194 even way more complicated when it comes to processing it. 125 00:11:23,354 --> 00:11:27,394 And we still don't know yet how to solve this problem. 126 00:11:28,214 --> 00:11:31,594 And as you can see, a lot of smartphones, 127 00:11:31,974 --> 00:11:37,094 like a lot of, for me, it is a kind of a crime against the humanity because, 128 00:11:37,254 --> 00:11:44,034 you know, they are like global laws which are bound to transfer this type of 129 00:11:44,034 --> 00:11:51,294 waste to the global self-countries, even though those developed countries like US, mostly US, 130 00:11:51,534 --> 00:11:57,434 and Europe are still shipping this waste to the places where people don't have 131 00:11:57,434 --> 00:12:03,294 enough capability to process it, don't have the technology. 132 00:12:03,794 --> 00:12:06,774 So most of the work they are doing is done by hand. 133 00:12:07,134 --> 00:12:14,354 And so we can imagine it's highly hazardous, it's highly dangerous. 134 00:12:14,354 --> 00:12:21,514 And also what is really terrifying that there is, of course, 135 00:12:21,654 --> 00:12:22,974 a lot of child labor as well. 136 00:12:23,794 --> 00:12:32,134 And it's normal. Here you can see only the screens from the smartphones are being sold per kilo, 137 00:12:32,374 --> 00:12:39,434 but there are like tons of those every day because it's interesting because 138 00:12:39,434 --> 00:12:43,074 India became like the biggest hub of electronic waste in the whole Asia, 139 00:12:43,074 --> 00:12:49,994 mostly because at some point China banned delivering waste from other European 140 00:12:49,994 --> 00:12:53,634 and US and Australia and other countries. 141 00:12:53,834 --> 00:12:57,654 So eventually this waste came to India. 142 00:12:57,914 --> 00:13:01,494 Even though India has also signed up some agreements with other countries, 143 00:13:01,654 --> 00:13:07,174 but people who are shipping this waste find a way, find a loop, 144 00:13:07,274 --> 00:13:08,714 and they are transforming, 145 00:13:08,974 --> 00:13:15,774 transporting it first to the Bhutan, then to Bhutan and Nepal and then this 146 00:13:15,774 --> 00:13:18,334 waste goes directly to India. 147 00:13:18,734 --> 00:13:24,854 So this market is 90% illegal, informal and. 148 00:13:27,578 --> 00:13:33,838 And I think all of us, everyone who purchases any type of new hardware should 149 00:13:33,838 --> 00:13:37,258 be aware that the whole cycle looks like that. 150 00:13:37,358 --> 00:13:46,138 That our phones and our laptops do not exist without people in Democratic Republic 151 00:13:46,138 --> 00:13:51,218 of Congo who are mining cobalt, do not exist without europium, 152 00:13:51,338 --> 00:13:53,178 which I showed you before, 153 00:13:53,478 --> 00:13:56,878 and other rare earth minerals elements. 154 00:13:57,578 --> 00:14:07,758 And this problem is not only about smartphones, but in general about the whole technology. 155 00:14:08,238 --> 00:14:16,638 Here you can see I found a spot where they were like dismelting the servers from the bungalow. 156 00:14:19,458 --> 00:14:24,778 So this is how it ends up, unfortunately. Unfortunately, if we do not pay much 157 00:14:24,778 --> 00:14:27,798 attention to it, if we do not ask questions, 158 00:14:29,178 --> 00:14:37,178 what were really our old computers and hardwares and EPS lifecycle. 159 00:14:37,678 --> 00:14:46,198 I also, when I went there, I was also re-inspired before by the research done by Polish researchers. 160 00:14:46,198 --> 00:14:53,638 Researchers, they analyzed the picture from the, 161 00:14:53,838 --> 00:14:58,898 there was an artist who made like, who take a footages of little crabs who are 162 00:14:58,898 --> 00:15:03,818 find a way to form their home in a kind of a waste. 163 00:15:04,118 --> 00:15:07,918 So I was also looking for a way how this problem affect the animals. 164 00:15:08,318 --> 00:15:13,718 And it turns out that a lot of dogs, of course, in those places, 165 00:15:13,758 --> 00:15:19,938 and other animals who are biting all the waste, who are drinking. 166 00:15:21,691 --> 00:15:25,051 Water from like it 167 00:15:25,051 --> 00:15:28,991 contained contaminated sources so 168 00:15:28,991 --> 00:15:33,311 it's because all the waste when it's landfilled all 169 00:15:33,311 --> 00:15:36,311 the toxic elements goes 170 00:15:36,311 --> 00:15:40,431 directly to the groundwater and also to 171 00:15:40,431 --> 00:15:43,631 the soil of course just like I said child 172 00:15:43,631 --> 00:15:46,531 labor quite common and that's why 173 00:15:46,531 --> 00:15:49,591 it's happening because the cost 174 00:15:49,591 --> 00:15:52,911 of labor is extremely low so those 175 00:15:52,911 --> 00:15:55,931 companies still can do it because 176 00:15:55,931 --> 00:15:59,731 they can afford it because like processing electronic waste 177 00:15:59,731 --> 00:16:03,551 just like i said before is extremely complicated also 178 00:16:03,551 --> 00:16:06,431 the um in some places there 179 00:16:06,431 --> 00:16:09,631 are machines which are require a lot of energy because the 180 00:16:09,631 --> 00:16:13,931 process is not quite energy efficient so 181 00:16:13,931 --> 00:16:17,971 the the amount of 182 00:16:17,971 --> 00:16:23,451 like the metals they can extract from it actually cost of the energy overcome 183 00:16:23,451 --> 00:16:31,591 the the final uh final uh final cell savings um so as you can see this is how 184 00:16:31,591 --> 00:16:36,411 it looks like this is how most of the electronics ends up 60 according to the 185 00:16:36,411 --> 00:16:37,531 electronic waste monitor, 186 00:16:37,691 --> 00:16:43,531 65% of global electronic waste ends up like that, unfortunately. 187 00:16:45,711 --> 00:16:54,751 So, yeah, but there were also kind of like little sparkling of hope over there 188 00:16:54,751 --> 00:17:02,771 because I also been talking with local entrepreneurs there and they are extremely... 189 00:17:05,794 --> 00:17:10,774 They see also opportunity in that. 190 00:17:11,094 --> 00:17:17,854 And what they are doing here, but their technology is not safe and it's not 191 00:17:17,854 --> 00:17:22,014 like, you know, here in Europe we have like a standards that you cannot overcome, 192 00:17:22,414 --> 00:17:24,434 but there nothing like that exists. 193 00:17:24,894 --> 00:17:29,414 So what they are doing, they are grounding the electronic waste and they are 194 00:17:29,414 --> 00:17:33,474 melting it and then they are extracting gold out of it. 195 00:17:33,474 --> 00:17:36,214 So and also the one guy over 196 00:17:36,214 --> 00:17:40,274 there he also has a jewelry shop so as you 197 00:17:40,274 --> 00:17:47,614 can see those resources came into the circulation but that was the dark side 198 00:17:47,614 --> 00:17:54,814 of my presentation sorry for that i also i split into the half and now i promise 199 00:17:54,814 --> 00:17:59,954 i bring some hope so don't worry. 200 00:18:00,794 --> 00:18:03,914 Now it happened right 201 00:18:03,914 --> 00:18:07,074 i mean we cannot do anything about it 202 00:18:07,074 --> 00:18:10,514 but i think what's next is all 203 00:18:10,514 --> 00:18:13,974 up to us and that's why we are here and i 204 00:18:13,974 --> 00:18:16,694 also when i came back i 205 00:18:16,694 --> 00:18:20,114 was listening i was really keen to find 206 00:18:20,114 --> 00:18:23,494 the source of the issue really like a really deeply rooted 207 00:18:23,494 --> 00:18:27,254 source of this problem and I came 208 00:18:27,254 --> 00:18:31,014 into the contact with Joseph he was really he was 209 00:18:31,014 --> 00:18:33,674 a really supportive for me and gave me like a lot 210 00:18:33,674 --> 00:18:36,394 of insight of what's happening here what you are 211 00:18:36,394 --> 00:18:39,234 doing in KDE because I feel and I believe that 212 00:18:39,234 --> 00:18:42,434 open source is a is an ultimate solution for 213 00:18:42,434 --> 00:18:45,754 like overcoming the planned obsolescence 214 00:18:45,754 --> 00:18:48,674 of the hardware then I came into sorry for this 215 00:18:48,674 --> 00:18:54,494 like a lot of text on the slide but I can share with you later but I wanted 216 00:18:54,494 --> 00:19:00,054 to point out that especially in the context of France they are really there 217 00:19:00,054 --> 00:19:07,074 is a legislation law regarding environmental aspects of IT and especially. 218 00:19:09,254 --> 00:19:14,874 Hardware and though they point out what are the main reasons why people like 219 00:19:14,874 --> 00:19:21,054 dropping their hardware why people they're dropping their smartphones and I 220 00:19:21,054 --> 00:19:25,994 just realized this is mostly Mostly because this is mostly the human problem. 221 00:19:28,234 --> 00:19:35,594 People do not know how to use the hardware properly, don't understand it, 222 00:19:35,754 --> 00:19:41,814 don't know how to manage their data properly, how to keep it clean, 223 00:19:42,014 --> 00:19:43,214 how to keep it structured. 224 00:19:43,754 --> 00:19:47,754 So they eventually could... 225 00:19:51,660 --> 00:19:54,740 The life cycle of their hardware could be a bit longer. 226 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,640 So then I realized this is all about like a mindset, right? 227 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:04,360 That for years, our economy, the way of living being the highly linear are. 228 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:10,840 And also there is this approach for sustainability that we have to like rethink, 229 00:20:11,020 --> 00:20:19,040 redefine how we operate, that we have to repurpose things and put them in a constant circulation. 230 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:26,240 This is the circular economy. But then I jumped into the concept of a regenerative approach. 231 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:33,420 This is something even more, because at some point, if we open our minds for 232 00:20:33,420 --> 00:20:34,860 being more regenerative, 233 00:20:35,100 --> 00:20:39,500 it means that we as a community, as a society, have enough, and we are able 234 00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:45,280 to also uplift and help the others, support our community. 235 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:54,280 And all this aspect is very also gets a lot of inspiration from permacomputing which is the. 236 00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:58,840 Approach for like creating technology in 237 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,020 a way that it listened to the community listen 238 00:21:02,020 --> 00:21:05,700 to the natural ecosystems it's not extractive but 239 00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:09,200 rather rather collaborative so 240 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,360 I point out a few like a 241 00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:15,420 a main aspect of of regenerative approach for 242 00:21:15,420 --> 00:21:19,560 technology and for permacomputing and 243 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,240 it's of course just like i said before it's all 244 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,220 community-based and what's happening here at 245 00:21:25,220 --> 00:21:28,880 kd it's all already community-based uh so 246 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,580 i i think um we are 247 00:21:32,580 --> 00:21:37,880 on the good we're on a good path and i really highly appreciate that what's 248 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:42,420 happening here what's uh what are the what are the projects you are working 249 00:21:42,420 --> 00:21:47,880 on and I also promote it among my friends and promote in the organizations because 250 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:49,460 your work, what you are doing here, 251 00:21:49,700 --> 00:21:52,060 deserves even more and more recognition. 252 00:21:52,600 --> 00:22:03,180 And those are the pictures from KDE India community gathering and again, 253 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:08,420 I'm extremely grateful for meeting those people because they also helped me 254 00:22:08,420 --> 00:22:13,840 to conduct the field research on electronic waste dumpsters. 255 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:23,020 And also, especially in the context of a hacking culture, there is a space for experimentation. 256 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,760 There is a space for making mistakes. And no one is blaming for them because 257 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:33,080 they are a space for making ourselves and making our community stronger and resilient. 258 00:22:33,900 --> 00:22:36,300 So this is also extremely. 259 00:22:37,869 --> 00:22:44,609 Extremely important and also of 260 00:22:44,609 --> 00:22:47,649 course is a thing for open 261 00:22:47,649 --> 00:22:56,089 source in general open knowledge sharing but it's not that common I'm not it's 262 00:22:56,089 --> 00:22:59,469 not that common everywhere so I again want to say and I really highly appreciate 263 00:22:59,469 --> 00:23:01,509 that that's what's what's what's 264 00:23:01,509 --> 00:23:07,229 happening here And there is also a really interesting project recently, 265 00:23:07,369 --> 00:23:08,549 I think at the end of May, 266 00:23:08,789 --> 00:23:11,149 correct me if I'm wrong, OptGreen. 267 00:23:11,709 --> 00:23:16,749 It's also, I don't know if all of you have heard about it, is a part of a KDE 268 00:23:16,749 --> 00:23:23,329 Echo project that stands for open knowledge sharing for the workshop, 269 00:23:23,589 --> 00:23:29,389 for the meetings with the people who really need this kind of a solution. 270 00:23:29,389 --> 00:23:36,309 Also, today on the way here we had a discussion with Paul, he's here, he just went. 271 00:23:38,769 --> 00:23:39,529 That he, 272 00:23:41,629 --> 00:23:48,829 we had a discussion about like promoting knowledge and solution at schools because 273 00:23:48,829 --> 00:23:52,109 it turns out that a lot of schools don't have like, 274 00:23:52,289 --> 00:23:58,129 you know, the access to the newest resources and And it turns out that they 275 00:23:58,129 --> 00:24:02,569 also require a lot of like a knowledge, open knowledge exchange in a way to 276 00:24:02,569 --> 00:24:05,869 being more green and more progressive. 277 00:24:06,349 --> 00:24:11,509 And what is also important when it comes to like this regenerative approach 278 00:24:11,509 --> 00:24:15,289 is a care for life and extending life cycle. 279 00:24:15,449 --> 00:24:21,329 And here comes to play Okular, which is, again, I don't want to be like a sound 280 00:24:21,329 --> 00:24:24,529 like you're a fan, like a psycho fan. 281 00:24:24,529 --> 00:24:28,129 But I really appreciate what you are doing and 282 00:24:28,129 --> 00:24:31,029 this ocular is is a proof that it's 283 00:24:31,029 --> 00:24:33,969 doable right that the the software can be 284 00:24:33,969 --> 00:24:36,929 done in a way that it do not contribute to 285 00:24:36,929 --> 00:24:43,449 the planned obsolescence of the hardware and and I just pointed out just to 286 00:24:43,449 --> 00:24:49,229 let you know that again I highly appreciate what's happening here and this project 287 00:24:49,229 --> 00:24:54,049 is amazing and it's also you know I don't know the whole, 288 00:24:54,529 --> 00:24:57,809 background of like getting through the process of this certification, 289 00:24:58,629 --> 00:25:04,889 but it's really something and and it's also like a contributing in a way to. 290 00:25:06,316 --> 00:25:14,456 Being more regenerative and um also this is a picture from uh kde india uh gathering 291 00:25:14,456 --> 00:25:23,316 uh also there we had like a lot of really fruitful um discussion about keeping things simple um, 292 00:25:24,316 --> 00:25:28,576 that was really interesting because there was like a growing trend of like this 293 00:25:28,576 --> 00:25:33,976 future phones where people are especially abandoning this overstimulated work 294 00:25:33,976 --> 00:25:36,196 of a lot of applications, 295 00:25:36,796 --> 00:25:41,696 a lot of this red notification, which are grabbing our attention and trying 296 00:25:41,696 --> 00:25:44,316 to keep it as simple as possible. 297 00:25:44,796 --> 00:25:48,036 And here is a very interesting diagram. 298 00:25:49,156 --> 00:25:52,476 It's like a gathering of trends, 299 00:25:52,956 --> 00:25:57,876 what's happening when it comes to permacomputing, 300 00:25:57,876 --> 00:26:03,756 and those are the links for the projects which we which you can dive deeper 301 00:26:03,756 --> 00:26:10,236 after war just to stay inspired but as you can see there is a oh where is it. 302 00:26:14,796 --> 00:26:22,736 No the thing is i wanted to point out 128 kilobyte club one kilobyte club over 303 00:26:22,736 --> 00:26:24,476 there on the right, right? 304 00:26:24,556 --> 00:26:29,216 So there is also this trend and there's like a craving for less. 305 00:26:30,516 --> 00:26:38,296 That we, yeah. This, if you wanna have an access to this, it's a diagram.website. 306 00:26:38,616 --> 00:26:45,556 And it's like a whole directory with very interesting projects and a very, very progressive one. 307 00:26:45,776 --> 00:26:49,596 And here we can also find more information about the permacomputing and the 308 00:26:49,596 --> 00:26:58,476 people who are involved in this movement and maybe also get a bit inspired by this approach. 309 00:26:59,036 --> 00:27:08,196 And also at the heart of this is this new approach for the economy, 310 00:27:08,476 --> 00:27:10,236 which is like the growth economy. 311 00:27:11,636 --> 00:27:18,236 Which in this case is extremely important to reach the stage when we know that we have enough. 312 00:27:18,236 --> 00:27:24,936 We know that we don't have to grow anymore we know that we what we already achieve, 313 00:27:26,316 --> 00:27:31,256 it's actually fulfilling our needs and our desires and then there is like this, 314 00:27:32,456 --> 00:27:39,556 changing point when we are just maintained we do not produce more we just make 315 00:27:39,556 --> 00:27:41,136 it sure that our community our 316 00:27:41,136 --> 00:27:47,756 projects our our goods are just being maintained in a way to sustain our, 317 00:27:48,856 --> 00:27:51,096 community. And also... 318 00:27:53,452 --> 00:28:02,852 Yeah, also again, this is also the picture from KD gathering in India. 319 00:28:04,552 --> 00:28:09,752 So, yeah, I think it is important to, just like I point at the beginning, 320 00:28:09,952 --> 00:28:20,652 that diverse and community is the resilient one that allow us to act free, right? 321 00:28:20,652 --> 00:28:24,932 That we do not hurt anyone, that we are just in here together, 322 00:28:25,132 --> 00:28:30,732 but we have a trust and we have respect for each other. 323 00:28:31,172 --> 00:28:34,492 And reuse, right? 324 00:28:34,592 --> 00:28:40,492 Because, yeah, again, Katie. Woo! 325 00:28:43,452 --> 00:28:47,632 Because the first thing when it comes to sustainability, 326 00:28:47,632 --> 00:28:56,112 circularity or regenerative approach is first of all refuse saying that we don't 327 00:28:56,112 --> 00:29:03,792 need anymore that's enough and reuse give especially our hardware second, 328 00:29:04,812 --> 00:29:16,772 chance right second chance upcycle it and try to like extend its life cycle as long as possible. 329 00:29:18,052 --> 00:29:22,072 But also what is important is to repurpose. 330 00:29:23,212 --> 00:29:31,192 Because I've told you I have the necklace on me made of PC boards. 331 00:29:32,792 --> 00:29:35,552 Because right now we have so 332 00:29:35,552 --> 00:29:40,392 many of these wastes, it is also important to rethink how we can reuse it. 333 00:29:40,552 --> 00:29:45,352 I've seen some projects in Africa where people have been building walls for 334 00:29:45,352 --> 00:29:47,232 their homes from old keyboards. 335 00:29:47,712 --> 00:29:59,252 And also I also work with kids and we are trying to make some little stuff and 336 00:29:59,252 --> 00:30:04,732 like sculptures also again made from the waste, 337 00:30:04,932 --> 00:30:07,892 just to realize that this is a really valuable, 338 00:30:09,132 --> 00:30:14,372 resource that we can repurpose, reuse it and try to look for the alternative 339 00:30:14,372 --> 00:30:23,272 solution and try to extend the lifecycle as long as possible to the moment where 340 00:30:23,272 --> 00:30:28,652 we will be able to recycle it in a very effective and efficient way. 341 00:30:29,292 --> 00:30:31,752 There was someone from New Zealand, as good I remember. 342 00:30:33,359 --> 00:30:39,799 Hello, also to bring more hope when it comes to the like a bio-based technology, 343 00:30:40,159 --> 00:30:42,199 bio-based solution for recycling. 344 00:30:42,699 --> 00:30:46,979 There is a really strong movement right now happening when it comes to using 345 00:30:46,979 --> 00:30:58,139 microbes and to recycling and extracting metals from the electronic ways, so it's happening. 346 00:30:58,319 --> 00:31:03,999 But the thing is this technology is on a very early stage, so before it will 347 00:31:03,999 --> 00:31:09,719 be commercialized and will reach the scale that will help us to solve this problem, 348 00:31:10,719 --> 00:31:14,459 we still at the moment right now we have to use our imagination, 349 00:31:14,799 --> 00:31:25,519 we have to be very creative in a way to reuse and repurpose this waste that is all over around here. 350 00:31:29,359 --> 00:31:38,519 So I'm going to, again, point out to the mindset, because it's all about our perception, 351 00:31:38,899 --> 00:31:44,739 all about the systems that we are interfering with. 352 00:31:45,359 --> 00:31:51,819 And at the end, I think the whole change begins here, not with the technology, 353 00:31:51,999 --> 00:31:59,259 but with the way we perceive it, the way we work with it, what are our expectations 354 00:31:59,259 --> 00:32:05,619 for it and what we can do to make sure that we all together as a societal, 355 00:32:05,899 --> 00:32:13,819 ecological and technological system can fit into this one circle which is our 356 00:32:13,819 --> 00:32:19,259 planet Earth which resources are limited, 357 00:32:19,599 --> 00:32:23,999 and we all have to keep that in mind. 358 00:32:25,179 --> 00:32:32,779 Yeah, those are those three systems I wanted to discuss with you. And I have once again... 359 00:32:34,674 --> 00:32:42,034 A lot of love for you what you are doing here and a lot of appreciation uh because from uh, 360 00:32:42,974 --> 00:32:45,854 social uh point of view 361 00:32:45,854 --> 00:32:49,474 um you provide uh accessibility 362 00:32:49,474 --> 00:32:56,854 uh provide like a access to the people who are not being able to uh buy a new 363 00:32:56,854 --> 00:33:02,454 piece of hardware uh i've seen a beautiful projects of like at schools where 364 00:33:02,454 --> 00:33:06,734 in the under in the countries in the global south. 365 00:33:08,054 --> 00:33:14,394 Which was was not able to buy new hardware but they could and some countries 366 00:33:14,394 --> 00:33:17,294 send them like a 20 50 years old 367 00:33:17,294 --> 00:33:21,994 computers but they were able to use them because they repurpose it they 368 00:33:22,114 --> 00:33:28,534 reinstall the system, they fit the software that allows them to use it. 369 00:33:28,854 --> 00:33:33,954 So from the social point of view, it's extremely beneficial. 370 00:33:34,274 --> 00:33:40,914 From environmental point of view, it's extremely important because it allows 371 00:33:40,914 --> 00:33:45,574 to stay hardware with us a bit longer. 372 00:33:46,454 --> 00:33:51,654 And from technological point of view, it's also uplift and inspire other to 373 00:33:51,654 --> 00:33:55,734 innovate and to share openly the knowledge. 374 00:33:56,014 --> 00:34:01,474 And that's the aspect of the hackers and hacking mindset because I think those 375 00:34:01,474 --> 00:34:06,854 are the qualities that will help us to survive on this planet, 376 00:34:07,114 --> 00:34:09,774 which is under threat, unfortunately. 377 00:34:09,894 --> 00:34:15,354 But those gatherings like here are only proving that there is a hope. 378 00:34:16,614 --> 00:34:20,894 And this hope is community-driven by KD. 379 00:34:22,514 --> 00:34:28,494 Oh, and I have a short announcement. Can we maybe stop recording? 380 00:34:28,594 --> 00:34:30,734 Because I don't want to stream it. 381 00:35:05,075 --> 00:35:09,135 Excellent. Welcome back, life. L-life. 382 00:35:16,255 --> 00:35:18,935 Oh, there is a... He's got a light. 383 00:35:27,775 --> 00:35:30,455 Did you turn the switch? It should be green. 384 00:35:38,075 --> 00:35:45,095 Ah okay yeah there you go so if there is one thing you could wish from free 385 00:35:45,095 --> 00:35:51,075 software developers and the KDE community to help combat e-waste what would it be? 386 00:35:51,375 --> 00:35:57,055 I think you're already doing it and to be honest like with all the KDE Echo, 387 00:35:58,275 --> 00:36:01,735 projects and like from what 388 00:36:01,735 --> 00:36:06,075 i know especially from you joseph that you're organizing workshop working with 389 00:36:06,075 --> 00:36:12,015 teenagers and i think would be really nice to have more of a young people here 390 00:36:12,015 --> 00:36:18,655 just to make sure that we will pass this knowledge we will pass this mindset to them and And, 391 00:36:18,655 --> 00:36:21,095 yeah. 392 00:36:22,695 --> 00:36:30,115 I mean, yeah, I just realized that the best what we can do is to extend as long 393 00:36:30,115 --> 00:36:32,635 as possible the life cycle of the hardware. 394 00:36:32,815 --> 00:36:36,115 That's the best what we can do. And that also, at the other hand, 395 00:36:36,155 --> 00:36:43,175 would contribute to slowing down this whole trend of consumptionism. 396 00:37:08,730 --> 00:37:14,490 You had the one slide which said degrowth um more or less every company i know 397 00:37:14,490 --> 00:37:21,930 wants to grow and we have a you know we have capitalism all over the world that's a hard sell, 398 00:37:24,130 --> 00:37:26,950 it's probably necessary but yeah but the 399 00:37:26,950 --> 00:37:33,070 thing is um maybe i will switch into the slides because that's the curve of 400 00:37:33,070 --> 00:37:39,390 the growth that we grow to the certain point and we know what where where are 401 00:37:39,390 --> 00:37:46,710 our limitations and then we only maintain uh and i know all the companies want 402 00:37:46,750 --> 00:37:52,130 to grow but i think we need to find some kind of uh of a balance here right 403 00:37:52,130 --> 00:37:57,450 and but this this trend is also growing there are more and more like an oh. 404 00:38:00,390 --> 00:38:06,110 Even investors who are not like requiring uh cashing out in a way of being like 405 00:38:06,110 --> 00:38:14,050 highly on highly on growth so it's again uh the thing with a mindset right that 406 00:38:14,050 --> 00:38:15,370 we require more and more and more. 407 00:38:15,590 --> 00:38:20,470 But the thing is that we still forget that we live in a closed cycle, 408 00:38:20,650 --> 00:38:24,630 in a closed ecosystem that also has its limitation. 409 00:38:25,050 --> 00:38:31,670 And it will take years for natural resources to restore. 410 00:38:34,550 --> 00:38:40,750 And I think it's not a threat for the planet but it's a threat for our society and civilization. 411 00:38:45,630 --> 00:38:46,290 Thank you. 412 00:38:57,625 --> 00:39:00,405 So, hi, thanks for your great talk. 413 00:39:01,845 --> 00:39:08,445 I think a lot has to happen in the countries in the global north to prevent 414 00:39:08,445 --> 00:39:11,065 all this e-waste and stuff you mentioned. 415 00:39:13,445 --> 00:39:24,225 Are there political movements or initiatives you are aware of or that are happening right 416 00:39:24,305 --> 00:39:33,465 now that try to combat these things from these countries as well. 417 00:39:35,625 --> 00:39:40,645 I'm thinking about like the right to repair movement and stuff like that. 418 00:39:41,765 --> 00:39:45,305 So I'm also a huge fan of it. We all have a right to repair. 419 00:39:45,605 --> 00:39:51,265 But this issue, this challenge is systematic because at some point, 420 00:39:51,285 --> 00:39:57,205 some Some of the hardware is not being designed and created in a way to be able to be repaired. 421 00:39:57,785 --> 00:40:06,905 But I see also a lot of repairing cafes popping up all over the world, actually. 422 00:40:07,265 --> 00:40:14,425 And also there is this legislation coming on from the European Union that the 423 00:40:14,425 --> 00:40:17,425 extended responsibility of a manufacturer. 424 00:40:17,425 --> 00:40:20,665 Structure uh so but it's also 425 00:40:20,665 --> 00:40:23,965 it's a beautiful idea but i'm looking forward for 426 00:40:23,965 --> 00:40:27,365 for the for for the execution also i 427 00:40:27,365 --> 00:40:30,045 see uh the trend especially when it 428 00:40:30,045 --> 00:40:32,665 comes to like purchasing hardware in the 429 00:40:32,665 --> 00:40:36,465 companies that they are looking for uh refabricated 430 00:40:36,465 --> 00:40:39,145 hardware uh so they are this is like that 431 00:40:39,145 --> 00:40:42,325 they are not it's not their choice to look for for 432 00:40:42,325 --> 00:40:45,145 uh first choice of option to look 433 00:40:45,145 --> 00:40:48,225 for for for the new equipment so they're trying also to 434 00:40:48,225 --> 00:40:52,045 look for something on a second-hand market and uh 435 00:40:52,045 --> 00:40:54,965 and yeah and also on this level of like 436 00:40:54,965 --> 00:40:59,005 the the customers they are also trying to repair re upcycle 437 00:40:59,005 --> 00:41:02,525 uh i've seen a really beautiful projects 438 00:41:02,525 --> 00:41:05,665 of uh like repurposing uh 439 00:41:05,665 --> 00:41:08,985 smartphones there are like almost 20 different 440 00:41:08,985 --> 00:41:12,045 ways how you can use your old smartphone as ccc 441 00:41:12,045 --> 00:41:15,045 tv camera as a joystick as a 442 00:41:15,045 --> 00:41:18,505 controller so it's again it's 443 00:41:18,505 --> 00:41:24,485 about like a hacking culture which are looking for those different way of using 444 00:41:24,485 --> 00:41:30,385 hardware which are openly sharing the knowledge and this attitude is extremely 445 00:41:30,385 --> 00:41:36,845 important and also they are like maker like hubs and workshops where people like. 446 00:41:37,065 --> 00:41:41,605 Community-based or gathering and trying to exchange knowledge, 447 00:41:41,705 --> 00:41:46,545 but also tools, because it's also a matter of tools, but not all people have an access to them. 448 00:41:48,325 --> 00:41:49,285 So there's a hope. 449 00:41:51,565 --> 00:41:53,325 But it requires more recognition. 450 00:41:58,918 --> 00:42:08,578 To complement open software with, to push open hardware that complements longevity of open software, 451 00:42:08,898 --> 00:42:15,758 how can we push such open hardware without creating new hardware? 452 00:42:20,558 --> 00:42:26,198 That's a good question. Million dollar question. 453 00:42:26,198 --> 00:42:31,598 Question um i think creating more of a open hardware and promoting it that's 454 00:42:31,598 --> 00:42:36,338 the only because also this is a problem in general that the hardware even though 455 00:42:36,338 --> 00:42:42,118 my phone will die after a few years i'm not able to cycle it and put a new software 456 00:42:42,118 --> 00:42:45,338 on it so it's not uh compatible, 457 00:42:46,198 --> 00:42:51,078 and there are a lot of projects open hardware projects but they are um. 458 00:42:52,518 --> 00:42:54,398 Again, deserve more recognition. 459 00:42:54,878 --> 00:42:59,098 And I think from the perspective of a person who is trying to create this bridge 460 00:42:59,098 --> 00:43:06,578 between tech-savvy communities and people who are really willing to look for 461 00:43:06,578 --> 00:43:07,538 alternative solutions, 462 00:43:07,978 --> 00:43:13,918 I think the language is too complicated for them, first of all. 463 00:43:13,958 --> 00:43:17,018 And secondly, also the visual language is not 464 00:43:17,018 --> 00:43:20,558 accessible for them enough to understand and to 465 00:43:20,558 --> 00:43:23,238 be able to make this decision that I really want to 466 00:43:23,238 --> 00:43:26,358 go for for the Opera hardware they want to go but 467 00:43:26,358 --> 00:43:29,038 from what I heard from a lot of 468 00:43:29,038 --> 00:43:31,858 people that they have a problem with Linux there are 469 00:43:31,858 --> 00:43:36,198 some issues so they don't know how to solve them and and 470 00:43:36,198 --> 00:43:43,198 I think more care for this like user experience side for education for like 471 00:43:43,198 --> 00:43:52,198 a support would be very also beneficial and that would also uplift this aspect of recognition, 472 00:43:52,518 --> 00:43:54,218 which is required. 473 00:43:54,938 --> 00:44:00,018 I had to go really down to the basements, some hackerspaces, 474 00:44:00,158 --> 00:44:05,398 to find out about the projects, but I'm really driven by heart to do it, 475 00:44:05,498 --> 00:44:09,518 but not many people are willing to go in such places. 476 00:44:10,098 --> 00:44:14,418 And I know, because I've been also at the Chaos Computer Club, 477 00:44:14,418 --> 00:44:20,198 but there are a lot of excellent, beautiful projects already there. 478 00:44:20,358 --> 00:44:25,418 But they need more, again, more recognition for that. 479 00:44:32,091 --> 00:44:39,191 So one of the problems in the hardware I hear about is that some electronics 480 00:44:39,191 --> 00:44:46,051 are made so that they're designed to break just after some time, 481 00:44:46,171 --> 00:44:48,971 like just after the warranty expires. 482 00:44:48,971 --> 00:44:56,911 And even if you have the right to repair you still you know you need to still 483 00:44:56,911 --> 00:45:04,411 buy new parts right which of course is still a kind of waste so what do you 484 00:45:04,411 --> 00:45:07,411 think people can do about this matter, 485 00:45:09,351 --> 00:45:13,951 yeah so this is the planned hardware obsolescence which is like creating a hardware 486 00:45:13,951 --> 00:45:18,131 in a way to it will end its life cycle after a certain time. 487 00:45:18,471 --> 00:45:24,791 And I think it also requires educating people at the very early stage who are 488 00:45:24,791 --> 00:45:30,271 making decisions how this hardware is being created and how this hardware is being designed. 489 00:45:30,491 --> 00:45:36,391 And there is this trend of a modular approach where you can just replace models, 490 00:45:38,271 --> 00:45:40,431 because that's the easiest way to do it. 491 00:45:40,571 --> 00:45:45,531 But again, it's on the growth. And more and more people and more and more gatherings 492 00:45:45,531 --> 00:45:50,231 like that, I hope, will solve those problems. 493 00:45:54,691 --> 00:45:56,511 Can we go offline?